Saugerties Planning Board consultants react to Terramor December 6th submission

Nelson Pope Voorhis consultants to Saugerties Planning Board logo

Nelson Pope Voorhis (NPV) are the Town of Saugerties Planning Department consultants. A member of their team provides guidance to the Board at each meeting and also provides comments about submissions made to the Board. These comments are intended to help the Board in its work to makes sure that development in Saugerties is rational, benefits the Town, and conforms to all applicable laws, rules, and regulations.

Previously, NPV have offered comments on each of Terramor’s submissions. The Board’s protocol requires that developers systematically address each concern raised by the Board and its consultants. Thus, the December Terramor submission (detailed here) sought to address concerns raised in the NPV comments from August 1st (here). Now we have the NPV memo about the Terramor December 6th submission. The comments were prepared for the December 20th Planning Board meeting and are dated December 14th. The memo reprises the previous commentary and adds (in bold) new comments (noted as 12/20) referencing the new Terramor submission. It’s a little tricky to navigate, but an attentive reader should soon pick up the flow. Later in the document NPV offers comments about the expanded EAF submitted for the December meeting.

Of particular note:

  • Page 4 of 12: The 12/20 comment reiterates a comment from 8/14 wherein NPV makes a point of pointing out severe inaccuracies in Terramor’s claims about a previously permitted subdivision on this land. They further explain that the land in question may be considered “constrained” and then go on to carefully discuss various claims made about the allowable uses.
  • Page 6 of 12: The 12/20 comment reiterates the comment from 8/14 about the expected demographics of the guests.
  • Note the revision of the Notice of Intent letter to include the Zoning board of Appeals

Here is the text of the Review:

This document has also been added to the folder containing all documents so far:

FAQ on the upcoming January 17th meeting of the Saugerties Planning Board and the Public’s role in commenting on Terramor’s submissions to date

Terramor Catskills saugerties planning board meeting december 20 2022

At the Saugerties Planning Board meeting on Tuesday December 20th, the Board made a couple of important decisions. After hearing lengthy presentations from Terramor’s lawyers and contractors, the Board voted:
1) to retain as many of their own experts and consultants as needed to properly address the issues raised by the application
2) to have an informational public session at the next Board meeting.

It’s important to note, once again, that this is NOT the formal “Public Hearing” required by law. The Board has not yet scheduled that Hearing. That will come later.

To clarify what we can expect at the January 17th meeting I emailed the Planning Board Chair the following questions (in blue). Below each question is the answer he provided (in red, and lightly edited for clarity)

  • Q: Please could you advise on the exact name we should give this event? Is it a SEQR deliberation? Is there a more formal/different name?
    A: It is an informational public [session] for the board to hear public comments and concerns
  • Q: Does the Public input portion have a particular name?
    A: It does not
  • Q: Is it safe to say that this is an opportunity for the Public to advise the Board on the particular areas that the Public thinks the Board should focus on in the Board’s deliberation about a Positive/Negative declaration and further SEQR scoping?
    A: I would word that differently. The board is quite familiar with the SEQR process and we focus on ALL areas of the process. For the public to “advise” the board would be a reversal of roles. 
  • Q: Can we assume that this is also an opportunity for any technical experts to present (in the manner of the experts presenting last night)?
    A: It is a chance for any technical experts hired by the public to speak. They would sign up just the same as the public would and would be allowed to speak with the same time constraint.
  • Q: How, exactly, do you see the Public input portion proceeding? You mentioned a sign-up sheet and the desire to reduce the number of repetitive comments. Will the sign up sheet be first come first served?
    A: It will be first come, first serve, with a predetermined time constraint (thinking 5 minutes)
  • Q: If you were to write a paragraph describing your ideal description of this part of the process and the Public’s particular involvement, I’d be happy to transmit it to the folks on the site.
    A: The whole purpose of this informational public [session] is for the board to gather comments from the public on any material presented by the applicant to date . We will then take these comments into consideration while going over all material [received] to date. 

(End of answers from PB Chair)

———- NOTES ———-

We do not yet know where in the agenda this session might be placed. It’s possible that it might be at the very start of proceedings. It might also be in Old Business. This is left to the discretion of the Board and depends on other factors such as formal Public Hearings. We will find out when the Agenda is published, likely late in the first week or early in the second week of January.

Interested members of the Public should attend, as they did in such encouraging numbers on Tuesday evening. But not all attendees need to speak. While it’s important that the Public’s voice be heard, it’s equally important to minimize repetition. Coordination of speakers and subjects should be managed carefully. Thus, if an expert has already spoken about a particular subject and has eloquently addressed the most important facets of that subject, subsequent speakers should refrain from repeating those very same points. The Board is very well aware of the importance of this project and the Public’s interest in it. They will know that for every person who speaks, there are many, many more who share the concerns of those who have spoken.

This post may be updated with further notes as we learn more.

Further analysis questions usefulness of Terramor Saugerties Catskills’ Well-Water Studies

On December 20th, Paul Rubin, hydrologist, supplied the Saugerties Planning Board with additional analysis of the CT Male (Terramor’s well-water contractor) submission from November 6th. CT Male’s submission was a smaller part of a larger Extended EAF submission.

The new document is labelled “Appendix B: Supplement to HydroQuest December 5, 2022 report titled: Proposed Terramor Glamping Project: Hydrologic and Land Use Based Justification for Issuance of a Positive SEQRA Declaration

In short, the analysis shows that the claims made by Terramor (that there is enough water available and that neighbors’ will not be overly adversely affected by the project and its water requirements) are suspect at the least, and built on deficient data.

A very strong case is made once again for a “positive declaration” for SEQRA purposes. And that it is not yet time for a Public Hearing

HydroQuest-Mid-Hudson Geosciences Appendix B

This submission can also be accessed here:

This submission has been added to the Google Drive file with all other public documents here:

Sunday December 11th 2pm Informational meeting moved to Zoom

Apologies for the last minute notice.
Due to the inclement weather, the meeting scheduled for Saint Gregory’s church is moved to zoom.
Here is the link:[0]=AT1XST63XfZw-haODtlSuttQsNnZxQveJ01RM213jYkr1GWI4VhK_UhGCYqcMKEpxDGYbDi23rOOPjqp2JuIkQxMtS3BDDR5sRLBAE2Ir503WkjskK2sEcCszCsVZUCU2vuQgCAyZocDgNBY42aOWCx5ohsDc_3_xYY-7js

Terramor Catskills Saugerties Glamping Project added to Tuesday December 20th 2022 Saugerties Planning Board Meeting

The Terramor Catskills Saugerties Glamping Project has been added to the agenda for the Tuesday December 20th, 2022 meeting of the Saugerties Planning Board. The meeting starts at 7:30pm and is in the Senior Center next to Cantine Field (map below).

NOTE: While members of the public are encouraged to attend, this is NOT a Public Hearing (that will come later). BUT, it is important that there are bodies in the room.

Terramor is the second item in the “Old Business” section of the meeting. This comes after two Public Hearings for Minor Subdivisions. Public Hearings sometimes take a while and sometimes they fly by, so estimating a time when Terramor might come up is difficult. Safe to say, come well nourished and hydrated.

2022-12-09-Saugerties-Planning -Board-Agenda-for-December-20-2022

Find a map to the Saugerties Senior Center, 207 Market St. (next to Cantine field) here.

New submissions to Saugerties Planning Board from Citizens Against Terramor

Citizens Against Terramor Catskills Saugerties Glamping Project  holding signs outside Saugerties Planning Board
Tuesday December 6th was the submission date for the December session of the Saugerties Planning Board. Yesterday we shared the submission from Terramor Catskills Saugerties. Today we share several submissions from Citizens Against Terramor.

  • CAT Lawyer’s letter to the Saugerties Planning Board
  • CAT Hydrologist’s Report about the Terramor Catskills Saugerties Glamping project (10.8MB)
  • CAT comments written by Stephan Maffia about the original Terramor traffic study
  • Comments on woodsmoke pollution written by Lorraine Farina

All of the documents have been uploaded to the Google Drive which contains as many of the items from the Public file as we have and the FOIL results from various other agencies. That Drive link can be found here:

Here are the individual submissions:

Important New Submissions from Terramor Catskills Saugerties – December 06 2022

Lawyer with briefaces Terramor Overdevelopment
On Tuesday December 6th, Terramor’s new lawyers and their various contractors submitted a number of new documents to the Saugerties Planning Board.

The documents submitted include:

  • December 6, 2022 Terramor cover letter with enclosures
  • Terramor SEQRA Expanded EAF Narrative
  • Terramor Revised SWPPP
  • Terramor Revised site plans

All of the documents have been uploaded to the Google Drive which contains as many of the items from the Public file as we have and the FOIL results from various other agencies. That Drive link can be found here:

This is an important set of submissions. There is plenty of new technical information here, but the cover letter is of particular interest.

It should be noted that this likely means that Terramor will be on the agenda for the December 20th meeting of the Saugerties Planning Board.

Here are the individual submissions:

Citizens Against Terramor Public Meeting – Sunday December 11th – 2pm

Citizens Against Terramor Public Meeting Sunday December 11 2022 - 2pm - Saint Gregory's Church Rt 212 Woodstock

Citizens Against Terramor will hold a public meeting at Saint Gregory’s Church on Sunday December 11th, 20022 from 2pm to 3pm

  • Meet members of the board of Citizens Against Terramor sharing details of our recent hydrology / well testing report and analysis of the developers’ traffic report
  • Hear from folks like you who are concerned about the proposed glamping development in our neighborhood
  • Learn about the current progress of the Terramor application and the problems it raises
  • Learn about the Saugerties Planning Board process
  • Ask questions
  • Learn how you can help

All are welcome, no RSVP is needed.